I agree with all of that, although I disagree about the Osama things. Yes, the caputure of Osama wouldn't mean too much to them, but Osama is a figurehead. The loss of a figure head always makes you second guess. And as David said, wars are faught economically, politically and with the military. The capture of Osama would be a major blow in the political aspect. And I understand that there are people still searching for him, but it seems the public has forgotten about him, and are all focused on how to bash our leaders decisions. Also it will not dissolve, as Dan said it's been going on for hundreds of years.
    Dan, while I believe we missunderstand our enemy, I'm sure they are just as misunderstanding. They hate our way of life, because of their religion. We are not fighting for cheeseburgers and beer, we're fighting for the idea of having a cheeseburger and beer and the freedom to have it whenever we want. We are fighting for our rights, as human beings. Just like their idea is strong so is ours. It's for freedom, the freedom of not being persicuted for our beliefs, our religion, or our way of life/ideals. That WAS what America was founded, though today it all becomes a little mucked up these days. We live in a strong, independant, and most important free country. And they don't like that. I don't think we will give up that easily. And if we do pull out, the moment another incident happens like 9/11, it will be over for them. This country, depsite what other nationalities say about it, does have alot of patience. We just don't put up with being attacked. Maybe I'm just an idealist, and like to think we have better justification for this war. But I stand behind our decisions as a country and our choices.

On to the tactics. A good example of failed tactics. (It's been a while sence I heard this, and I don't remember all the specifics or the important names) The french we're cornered in a mountain valley, and instead of heading up into the moutian for the higher ground they were slaughtered by a smaller guerilla force.

Finucane wrote Southie:  You may be thinking of Dienbienphu when you mention that French debacle.  Take a look at Bernard Fall's HELL IN A VERY SMALL PLACE, a classic on the French Indochina war.  The Viet Minh just strangled the garrison and after it fell, the French had had enough of Vietnam.  They left, we came in, and 20 years later we'd had enough too.

Nice call Danners.  I blame the French.  They whispered in our ears "Fear the Commie.  Domino Effect!"  and we jumped.  They caught us during our Red Scare phase.  Dienbienphu is classic: No way a 3rd world country could pull cannons to the top of the ridge.  Doh...guess they did.  Frenchies are so arrogant.  If I remember correctly, didn't Ho Chi Minh come to us during WW2 peace talks looking for help and we ignored him?  We practicly drove him to Nam's natural enemy (China) & with that USSR.  Guess hind sight is 20/20.

Finucane wrote And we should've known long ago that our way of life was on a collision course with Islam, whether or not we supported the state of Israel, the only real democracy in the entire Middle East.  There was a time when Jews, Christians, and Muslims got along well.  Remember, Mohammed saw Abraham through Isaac and Ishmael as the father of both tribes and he viewed Christ as a true prophet of God.  But somewhere along the way those lines became blurred.  I think it was when Christianity and Judaism became secularized.  We'll have peace with Islam when Baptists start blowing themselves up to make a theological point.

All 3 religions believe in the same God, just interpretation.  Sort of like Republican & Democrat, both believe in the Constitution but it's how you interpret it.  I think the Babtists will blow themselves if they can get it on TV.

Finucane wrote But man, if our survival depends on these fools we elect to public office, we're really screwed.

Didn't your parents say the same thing?  I think '70's band Stealer's Wheel said it best in "Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.  Here I am stuck in the middle with you."

Deadshot